WVFI's Luxury Interview-Chisel meets the Breeders (1992)

Chisel: Ted Leo (guitar), John Dugan (drums) & Chris Norbord (bass)

Two members of Chisel (Ted Leo & Chris Norborg) caught the Breeders at the crossroads between their Safari EP (familiar then to "in the the know" listeners) and the breakthough of Last Splash that has gone on to become recognized as an essential album of the '90s (and a favorite of Olivia Rodrigo).  This interview originally appeared in WVFI's Luxury ("today's barometer of youth culture") in fall of 1992. 

WVFI's Luxury Vol. 1, Issue 1-Fall 1992
WVFI is the college radio station for 
the University of Notre Dame

In October (1992), a pair of Luxury staff reporters (Chris Norborg and Ted Leo) had the opportunity to meet with the Breeders backstage at Chicago's Cabaret Metro in the midst of the band's fall tour supporting their second album, Safari. Pod, their first album on the British 4AD label has just been re-released in America. The Breeders feature Kim Deal of Pixies fame on vocals and guitar and the drummer from England's Spiritualized (Jon Mattock). Kim's twin sister, Kelley Deal (guitar) and Josephine Wiggs (bass) were present for the interview. Another interviewer from the University of Wisconsin was also present. 

Luxury Operative Chris: What's the drink you guys were drinking that everyone was getting sick off of? I read this thing in I think it was Melody Maker.  Well, what was in it?
Kelley Deal: It's vodka, Kahlua and Bailey's.
Chris: Kahlua?
Kelley: Yeah, it's really tasty.
Chris: Oh. 
Kelley: There should be warnings...
Chris: Oh, it's really dangerous...
Josephine Wiggs (British accent): It's dangerous because it...it tastes like a milkshake, but it's three shots of spirits in the same glass.
Chris: Who was it who was really suffering from it?
Kelley & Josephine: Tanya, Tanya threw up twice.
Chris: Oh, no. 
Kelley: I mean, her body weight...
Chris: Is she still ill now?
Kelley: No, I think she's all right now. 

Breeders 1992: L to R: Jon Mattock (drums), Kim Deal (guitar),
Tanya Donelly (guitar), Josephine Wiggs (bass), Kelley Deal (guitar)

University of Wisconsin interviewer: I haven't really read much about you guys, except that...I mean the British press fawns all over you guys and is totally like psycho about it, but like, I mean, that's a cool photo through, with the red, that's awesome, But, um, they build you up and then they carry you guys down...I mean obviously not you all, but the British press...
Kelley: They do, yeah.
Josephine: Yeah there is a tendency to do that, probably because they're bored.
UW interviewer: Like the band Suede. 
Kelley: Plus, England is so small, You could probably fit it all in Texas or something.
UW interviewer: Sure, probably. 
Luxury Operative Ted: Or Indiana.
UW interviewer: I'm from Texas, from El Paso. 
Kelley: I think we're going to play there next leg of the tour, this is the band's recreational vehicle. 
UW interviewer: Yeah it's beautiful, I was going to mention...
Ted: Cool, yeah.
Kelley: My dad is driving us around. 
UW interviewer: Yeah?
Ted: Alright.
Kelley: And my mom just joined up with us yesterday, that's why this place is so nice and clean, isn't it nice?

Kelley Deal and Josephine Wiggs in Mr. Deal's RV
Photo from the BreedersArchive

Chris: Speaking of your father, I was going to ask you, You and Kim, before the Pixies or anything, what did you guys do? You guys played together a while, didn't you?
Kelley: We did, we've played ever since we were in high school. We played at this bar called Mo's Lounge in Ohio, we did disco stuff.
Ted: Oh yeah?
Kelley: Yeah
UW interviewer: Covers or originals?
Kelley: Covers. We had this keyboard player who would do...These old ladies would yell out 'You redheaded F---!' cause the guy had red hair.  It was just gross, awful, Think about it, you know, you have those memories, where you blush, ugh! But anyway, after that we just did some stuff around Dayton. We got out of the disco, and more into the kinda drug-era thing. 
Josephine: (laughs) But we weren't into drugs.
Kelley: And, we opened up for Steppenwolf, and John Cage stuff, you know. 
Chris: Did you win a contest or something?
Kelley: No, (unintelligible name) was in that heavy metal band, they're still going on, aren't they? And so we'd play around, it was just Kim and her acoustic guitar and her and me singing, just a little acoustic duo, you know? And so we drive up to this gig, and it's all motorcycles.
Ted: Oh wow! (others chime in cries of surprise)
Kelley: But it really turned out good, I mean they really liked us.  We were pretty surprised about that. A bit relieved, too.
UW interviewer: What about Ivo Watts-Russell? what's that guy like?
Kelley: He is so nice, he's great.
Josephine: Yeah, he is a really nice guy  I don't know, he's just really calm, and quite often, when things feel as though they're in a complete state of chaos, I'll just ring him up, and say 'Look, here's what's happening and stuff.' And he's just got a real good view on things. 
Chris: Is it the same way with Vaughan Oliver? I know he does the album covers for most of the 4AD stuff, like v23 is that what it is?  These people, how integral are they, the image that they create with the records like with Pod and stuff like that?
Josephine: I think the the whole 4AD image is a very recognizable style, and I think Vaughan had a lot to do with that, because they made a decision, that we were going to have an in-house designer, and I think that the whole unity that there is with the label, with one guy deciding what's going to get put out, and it's all stuff that he likes, and you've got one guy who's doing all the artwork, gives it a real sense of unity that I think is really cool.  I think people like it, like the Coca-Cola brand name, it's something instantly recognizable and people like that. 
UW interviewer: And now with those distribution deals, you don't have to pay thirty dollars to get a record anymore, like Dead Can Dance and all that stuff, you can get it. It's kinda nice.    

Safari ep-Design by Vaughn Oliver

Last Splash-Design by Vaughn Oliver

Chris: Do you expect to be recording again soon?
Kelley: December. Yeah, we're doing a few new songs tonight.
Chris: Oh yeah?
Kelley: Yeah, we've got what, seven new songs to do, they're all like a minute, minute twenty or so.
Chris: So you've got an LP coming out soon?
Kelley: In the spring. (Editor's Note: Last Splash was released on August 30, 1993)
Josephine: Yeah, if we get it recorded in December, it'll be ready for the spring. 
Ted: What label will that be on?
Josephine: It'll be 4AD and over here we got license through Elektra. 
Ted: Do you find it's easier working with indie labels like 4AD? I mean, how involved in the dealings with Elektra have you been?
Josephine: To begin with, Elektra didn't really know what we were about, because of the weird origins of the band, and there's horror stories. Kim, when Safari was released, sat at home thinking 'Oh, the record's coming out in two days time, and I haven't done any press for it.' So, she rang up the press department at Elektra and said 'I am available, you know. I'm not lazy about doing press stuff,' and they said, 'Oh, we thought it was a reissue of an old record and we weren't going to do any press.' They had no idea we had a new record coming out, and that's kind of scary. 
Ted: Yeah, that's awful. 
Josephine: I think it has to do with the fact that it is a big organization. They have got so many other names to be dealing with. 
Kelley: Or with Glastonbury, remember, when we had to tell them that we were doing a....Was it Glastonbury?
Josephine: Yeah it was. 
Kelley: They said, 'You're not going to play there, why should we be advertising?
Josephine:  Yeah, somebody from Spin rang up, asking if she could interview, or review the gig or something, and they didn't even know that we were playing at Glastonbury.
UW interviewer: Did this anger you?
Josephine: It's just annoying because it means that there are people who's job is to be doing that and they're not doing it. But, then, every walk of life is like that. If you go into any office there's people not doing anything or reading the paper. So, you can't get too uptight about it. 
Kelley: I think we should just be thankful that 4AD is a major player, and not smaller, because this gives you a good indication of what could happen if we were solely dealing with Elektra. 
Josephine: If you, as we occasionally do, talk to bands who are trying to get deals and stuff, if you get a deal, when you're just starting out with an independent label who hasn't got much money and stuff, they can't give you a big advance, but they will take care of you and they will interested, and will prioritize you as a band, whereas, if you sign to a major company, the chances are, you're just going to get lost. 
Kelley: But then again, and I've heard Kim say this, she's like 'Forget all this indie label stuff' because of Rough Trade. 
Ted & Chris: Oh yeah...yeah.
UW interviewer: Is that why they released Pod again or is it because you guys wanted to be like Temple of the Dog and kind of like re-release it and you know...
Kelley: We weren't told they were re-releasing it. We don't have the slightest idea why they wanted to re-release it. 
Josephine: I thought it was about that you couldn't get it anymore. Since Rough Trade went down you couldn't get it anymore.  And then when the Rough Trade stuff was auctioned off, Elektra bought the masters. 

Chris: I wanted to ask about the "Safari" video shoot, was that fun, or was it a mess? What was that like?
Josephine: Well it was fun at the time, yeah.
Chris: I love that video, it's one of my favorites. 
Josephine: The one bad thing about it was that we were on this white shape on the floor. I think that was part of the reason that it was so static, was because we couldn't really walk around on it because it would make marks.  So it was like 'you've gotta stand real still, you mustn't move your feet!'-so of course everybody is like this. 
Kelley: Yeah. (laughs)
Josephine: But, you know, it was good fun. 
Kelley: I was kinda bummed out about the size of the studio, because, well, have you seen the original, the Black Sabbath one?
Ted: I haven't seen the Breeders video, sorry. I haven't watched MTV in a while. 
Kelley: It's huge, the space, and their little bodies take up half the screen. 
Chris: Which Black Sabbath?
Kelley: "Paranoid," it's on that tape, MTV Closet Classics, anyway, they're about half size. Then when we got into the studio we were like 'I dunno, it seems kind of small...so, what are we going to look like on TV?'...That was one cool part about it. 
Josephine: Yeah, it was, it was. Because the size of the TV screen is like this, and the size of the figures is like this on the Black Sabbath video, cause they did it in a huge warehouse...
Ted: So, what's your favorite Black Sabbath song?
Josephine: (after a pause) I don't know, I guess "Paranoid."

                             

The Breeders at a Cincinnati Reds baseball game-Sept. 2023

                                  

UW interviewer: So, have you been listening to a lot of music on this tour, or..
Kelley: Well, our RV, we had a catastrophe, it's so weird, every night it's like some new thing. The first thing that happened, we blew both tires out on the one side while going a mountain in Pennsylvania, I think it was. 
Josephine: No Maryland.
Kelley: Yeah, and it was the middle of the night, like two in the morning and we blew out two tires, and so it took all night to get that fixed. And the next night at the hotel, in Washington DC, our first gig out of Ohio, somebody broke into the RV and stole two Walkmans, some tapes and stuff. 
Josephine: and a guitar...
Kelley: Yeah, an acoustic, so..no, we haven't listened to much music. (laughs)
UW interviewer: Is it out of line to ask about, like other bands, like the Throwing Muses, your opinions of any of the current stuff they're put out, like the Red Heaven?
Kelley: I haven't really listened to it. 
Josephine: I was really surprised by the production on it, it really took me aback the first time I heard, it, especially the drums, But, having heard a few things since then, I'm kind of more used to it now. Her voice is great on that album, I think it's the best her voice has ever sounded, real, real good. 
Chris: What do you think of  a lot of other new bands now, like PJ Harvey?
Josephine: I saw them do a show a little while back and I kind of understand all the attention they've been getting, they put on a great show, they're very intense. 

After another lengthy and insightful question from the other interviewer, our dynamic Luxury crew ran out of tape and sadly the interview came to an end.

Photos depict Chisel as the Mummies from a Halloween show!

Chisel live at Chicago's Empty Bottle in Feb. 2023
Photo by author James Kennedy